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Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
belongs to Apps Team  , nGenera Product Management by Brittain on Mar 29, 2008 - 05:07 PM read 2040 times |
A few notes based on this thread, I've excerpted the relevant points for simplicity:
"Yes, all of the Re.sults interest groups/members/team areas are "private".
The BSGLock is a new default setting that needs to be manually removed if you want non-BSG Alliance people to see what you're posting in a private area.
The areas are completely private and impenetrable."
This is 100% true.
"Right.lt just adds one more step to the process, manually removing the lock tag. I know most of us will remember to do that but I have trouble believing that others on the team would when they reply or start their own conversations."
Replies have the same security as the originating conversation. Put another way: the visibility of a reply cannot be increased or decreased.
Also, I'm glad folks are feeling increasingly comfortable with knowing when to add or remove a secure tag.
"Or are we saying that BSG employees who post to these groups inherit more restrictive security settings than outsiders do"
The "BSGLock" security is logically AND'd with the interest group security (or in set notation, the resultant security is the intersection of the two tags security); therefore, the result is more restrictive.
"and then have to manually remove them every time? That would make no sense."
An executive decision was made that BSG employees by default should communicate only with other BSG employees. Therefore, anyone in that group must remove the tag before it's available to non-BSG'rs. Personally, I was against the decision, but I understand the rationale. Perhaps some time in the future we'll change this configuration.
Also, and most importantly, you can opt out of this from your Preferences page (which is reachable from your Profile or My Pages). The setting is in the "Locking" section, titled "Tag using your internal interest groups". Switch from All to No Content.
CC:"Andersen, Espen" <EAndersen@concoursgroup.com>,"Andersen, Espen" <self@espen.com>
Finally, it appears Espen has a concours group e-mail account. If he'd use this as his primary account on the hub, this would be a non-issue for him.
Hopefully this helps, Brittain
Please respond via bsgalliance.com (this conversation has the same title as this e-mail subject line).
----- Original Message -----
From: Bevins, Timothy B.
To: Carrillo, Laura M.; Morison, Bob; Galins, Maira D.; Roeder, Mike; Rennella, Mark
Sent: Fri Mar 28 08:02:19 2008
Subject: RE: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
To me, this just goes to the issue of functionality and purpose of the hub, and to its adaptability to the research process we use. It should be possible to exempt the research projects from the BSGLock rule, I think.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carrillo, Laura M.
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:58 AM
To: Morison, Bob; Galins, Maira D.; Roeder, Mike
Cc: Bevins, Timothy B.; Rennella, Mark
Subject: Re: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
Right.lt just adds one more step to the process, manually removing the lock tag. I know most of us will remember to do that but I have trouble believing that others on the team would when they reply or start their own conversations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Morison, Bob
To: Galins, Maira D.; Carrillo, Laura M.; Roeder, Mike
Cc: Bevins, Timothy B.; Rennella, Mark
Sent: Fri Mar 28 07:54:27 2008
Subject: RE: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
Thanks. Then I repeat my observation: "That would make no sense." The areas are already private with defined membership.
________________________________
From: Galins, Maira D.
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:50 AM
To: Morison, Bob; Carrillo, Laura M.; Roeder, Mike
Cc: Bevins, Timothy B.; Rennella, Mark
Subject: RE: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
Yes, all of the Re.sults interest groups/members/team areas are "private".
The BSGLock is a new default setting that needs to be manually removed if you want non-BSG Alliance people to see what you're posting in a private area.
The areas are completely private and impenetrable.
________________________________
From: Morison, Bob
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:46 AM
To: Galins, Maira D.; Carrillo, Laura M.; Roeder, Mike
Cc: Bevins, Timothy B.; Rennella, Mark
Subject: RE: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
We can discuss on today's research team call. Aren't all of our research team and member hubs "private" interest groups to begin with? Can't they be set up so that all members of these groups - inside and outside the firm - simply get access to everything the group is doing?
Or are we saying that BSG employees who post to these groups inherit more restrictive security settings than outsiders do - and then have to manually remove them every time? That would make no sense.
I trust that nothing published in "private" groups like our research project members areas is published to Google, etc.
________________________________
From: Galins, Maira D.
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:31 AM
To: Carrillo, Laura M.; Roeder, Mike
Cc: Morison, Bob; Bevins, Timothy B.; Rennella, Mark
Subject: RE: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
Here is Jeff's hub buzz about the new default security settings. Basically every conversation is going to default to the BSGLock tag. If you want people other than BSG employees (Espen, Re.sults gurus, others in the discussion) to see your post, you MUST delete this BSGLock from conversations.
http://www.bsgalliance.com/convs/show/4297-default-conversation-security-update-to-bsg-hub
________________________________
From: Carrillo, Laura M.
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:33 PM
To: Roeder, Mike
Cc: Morison, Bob; Bevins, Timothy B.; Rennella, Mark; Galins, Maira D.
Subject: RE: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
Thanks Mike.
Bob, Tim, Mark, Maira - Per Mike's email below, when you post conversations to the hub, even if Espen is a member (i.e. PBG Team hub) he will not be able to access posts with the BSGLock tag, which is a default tag. So please make sure it to take it off of any messages you'd like Espen to see and comment on. I'm assuming that will be most of them since Espen is active in all of our research projects.
Laura
________________________________
From: Roeder, Mike
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:44 PM
To: Carrillo, Laura M.
Cc: support@bsgalliance.com
Subject: Re: Support question for BSG Alliance
Hi Laura - the problem is that the conversation linked here is tagged as 'bsglock' and Espen's account email is not concours or bsgalliance. The BSGLock tag locks out anyone that is not from concours/bsgalliance (by account email address) You can remove the bsglock tag on the conversation and he should be able to see it. Let me know if that doesn't help - thanks.
--- Original Message ---
From: "Carrillo, Laura M." <lcarrillo@concoursgroup.com>
Received: 3/26/08 4:02:57 PM CDT
To: "External Support" <support@bsgalliance.com>
CC:"Andersen, Espen" <EAndersen@concoursgroup.com>,"Andersen, Espen" <self@espen.com>
Subject: Support question for BSG Alliance
I sent the attached message to the PBG team using the notification options on the hub. Espen Andersen just sent me a message that his is not able to open it because it is saying he is not a member of the team. I checked and he is listed as a member of this team PBG Team Page on the hub.
Please let me know how to fix this.
Thanks, Laura
Here's the link to the conversation:
http://www.bsgalliance.com/convs/show/4884-pbg-interview-schedule
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re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
by Espen on Mar 30, 2008 - 03:21 AM read 79 timesBrittain,
how do I change my primary email address? Can't find a link from the bsgalliance.com/convs page.
Espen
(incidentally, this interface is really ugly in Firefox 3.0b4)
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re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
in a conversation thread started here
by Brittain on Mar 31, 2008 - 03:04 PM read 64 timesEspen, et al,
I'm rolling this question together with an e-mail you'd sent last week. There's a good deal of overlap between topics that I thought others might appreciate hearing. The excerpts are from EspenA:
this should be a "non-issue" for me if I use my Concours email (--actual e-mail deleted--)as my primary email. But I am doing that on newparadigm, and still can't get access to the wiki.
I cannot comment on the NP wiki setup as Apps Team does not own that resource. I'm under the impression different credentials are used there. It is worth noting that bsgalliance.com uses the BSG Platform User Service (our SAML 2.0-compatible identity provider) which is meaningful simply because it's the convergence point for single sign-on for all BSG apps and systems. This is being rolled out incrementally as resources are available, therefore today we have many systems requiring their own credentials; however, there will be a future date when your bsgalliance.com account will get you in to everything in our ecosystem.
(I am not on bsgalliance.com - how do I change my primary email address?)
By primary e-mail address we mean the address you use 99% of the time on bsgalliance.com. You can create as many accounts as you want here, but we do not recommend this practice as it effectively splits your identity within the system. We have the notion of user personas, but that's for another time. For now, we recommend you pick one e-mail as your primary and we'll configure your usage around that account. For example, mine is actually my Hotmail account; however, I'm recognized by the system as a BSG employee and other corresponding benefits.
So, what do I do? I think relying on people to remove a .bsglock tag manually will slow things down, since they inevitably will forget and I am six time-zones away. Also, removing this tag may open up discussions to more people than we want, viz. the openly accessible thread above (which came to me through Bloglines).
I don't share your pessimism ("inevitably will forget") about this feature's learnability; however, experience has shown that people adapt to a publishing model (such as e.lab's and in contrast with a point-to-point model like e-mail) at different rates which can lead to frustration on the part of both "speaker" and "listener".
Ultimately, whether a user narrows his audience by adding a tag or widens her audience by removing a tag, the step of audience determination must happen. We're all comfortable now with determining an audience when sending e-mail, but we weren't always and certainly mistakes are still made today (e.g. type ahead filling in a different "Scott").
Lastly, for BSG upper management, the choice was made to err on the side of restrictive publishing (hence the default BSGLock for every BSG employee). While this means removing the tag and this can be construed as slowing things down, there's both legitimate reasons for the choice and functional options (the Preference setting) for easing the burden.
I am not an employee, but a contractor with Concours, but I have been in that position (with the title of Euroepan Research Director) for nine years and, as a matter of course, pitch in on every research project where I can contribute. How about creating a category of users called "trusted partner" or something like that?
The Hub supports such scenarios / groupings. Jeff Milne is your contact for helping get this policy configured correctly within bsgalliance.com.
(incidentally, this interface is really ugly in Firefox 3.0b4)
While this statement is certainly provocative, it's not tremendously informative: do you have a screen shot or a clarification of interface(s) you find "ugly"? We actively test IE7 and FF2 so perhaps you're encountering rendering bugs we're unaware of.
Comments welcome.
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re: re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
in a conversation thread started here
by Espen on Mar 31, 2008 - 03:38 PM read 67 timesBrittain,
thanks for your comments. I will email Jeff Milne to get a setup that allows me into all the projects I participate in. Mark Renella has also said he will get in touch to fix access to the RLT wiki.
As for the changing email: Does this mean I have to create a new user to change my email? That seems rather cumbersome. Isn't there a way to just take my self@espen.com id and change it to my eandersen@concoursgroup.com (or, I assume in the near future, eandersen@bsgconcours.com or eandersen@bsgalliance.com).
As for the ugliness: In Firefox 3.0b4, the reply field has horisontal black streaks for every line you type, and some of the alignment is off, both in the reply field and in the rest of the screenshot. (I don't have SnagIt installed on the FF3 computer.) Probably an AJAX rendering error. In FF2 (which I am using now), it looks fine. Probably an error in FF3, then.
Espen
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re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
by Laura Carrillo on Mar 31, 2008 - 08:18 AM read 69 timesThanks so much for your input Scott! I have a question/comment about the below comment and response:
"Right.lt just adds one more step to the process, manually removing the lock tag. I know most of us will remember to do that but I have trouble believing that others on the team would when they reply or start their own conversations."
Replies have the same security as the originating conversation. Put another way: the visibility of a reply cannot be increased or decreased. Also, I'm glad folks are feeling increasingly comfortable with knowing when to add or remove a secure tag.
My original thought was that those of us who manage or administer research projects as a major part of our job will remember to manually take the lock off, since we do a good portion of the hub posting. However, most research teams are made up of 6-12 contributors including BSG research staff, consultants, executives and external gurus, who may or may not post a great deal. Are we going to have to constantly remind them to take off the BSGLock everytime they want to start a thread for the project? or keep reviewing conversations to make sure that the entire team can see them? I know that the peoploe posting will remember to add the team tag so that only team members can see a post, however taking off the BSGlock as an added step creates some added complexity. Any ideas on how to make it easier?
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re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
in a conversation thread started here
by Brittain on Mar 31, 2008 - 01:13 PM read 65 timesExcellent questions, a few thoughts:
- This default "BSGLock" behavior only applies to BSG Employees. So for your external individuals this behavior isn't a factor.
- As an fyi, we could enable this behavior for any group using any tag (e.g. anyone in Apps Team has "Tuna Fish" as a default tag), we've simply chosen this policy.
- As mentioned above, any individual can opt out of this behavior from their Preferences page. If you've people who feel comfortable with the tagging, then advising them to change their preference would eliminate the extra step.
- This default "BSGLock" behavior only applies to BSG Employees. So for your external individuals this behavior isn't a factor.
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re: re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
in a conversation thread started here
by Laura Carrillo on Mar 31, 2008 - 01:40 PM read 64 timesThanks Scott. I know that it won't be an issue for the 1 or 2 external gurus that might start a post as part of a research project. My concern is for the 6-10 other people on the team(all BSGers) that may not remember to unlock the tag. I wouldn't ask them to change their preferences unless they were comfortable doing so. I guess my thought is that I will have to monitor the team pages to make sure that all conversations are tagged so that the appropriate people can see them.(all team members regardless of bsg or concours email) Seems like a bunch of extra work, no? I can be working on 3-4 research projects at one time, right now Projects PBG, TAD and REC have hubs set up...more projects launching soon.
I appreciate your thoughts and just ask that these issues be addressed during the next tagging/security discussions.
Laura
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re: Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
a reply to Questions about locking, default tags, and group memberships
by Espen on Mar 31, 2008 - 04:28 PM read 213 timesJust got an email from Brendan Peat, I am now IN. (it is also 1130pm, and I have a talk tomorrow morning, so edits to the RLT report will have to wait for now....)
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