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Conv Mike Roeder - Oh man, let this be the last of the testing.
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Confluence vs. SocialText
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by Mike Roeder on Jan 15, 2008 - 02:46 PM read 9127 times
 

Notes on Confluence and SocialText wiki platforms with focus on integration to e.laborate platform.

Please note that this is a living document and will be updated as the evaluation continues.

Soft requirements:

  1. Open Source
  2. SSL support
  3. Web services integration. Preferably via REST.
  4. SSO solution. Preferably SAML 2.0 or some variant of the ServiceProvider/IdentityProvider model (non-OpenID, if possible)
  5. Extensibility: Plug-In model or REST/Mash-Up model (see #1)
  6. Dedicated install or 'open' hosted model
  7. LAMP stack or some acceptable variant
  8. Amazon S3 compatible (or conditional 'roll-your-own' back-end connector integration)
  9. Cheap, rock-solid, reliable applicaton with unbelievable customer support.
  10. Typical scalability paths (Commonly used and easily clustered app servers and databases. Apache, Tomcat, Mongrel, Nginx, MySQL, etc.)

Confluence

Confluence is a Java based wiki app.

Features of note:

  • Hosted, appliance, or user-install
  • Versioning (Wiki entry, attachments) and Diff
  • Post by email
  •  HTML/XML/PDF export
  • Blogging
  • WebDAV enabled
  • Full text search, including attachment content (pdf, doc, email, etc)
  • RSS-able
  • E-mail archival (searchable). CC to confluence and the email and replies are archived
  • Content is organizable by hierarchy
  • Tags
  • 'Easy' Restructure / Reformat document organisation
  • LDAP integration, SSL support
  • MySQL support (along w/ Oracle, MSFT Sql Server, etc)
  • Automated Backups built into confluence software itself. Does not need to be hosted to have auto-backup
  • Security at workspace and page level
  • SOAP / XML-RPC interfaces (need to do some more research on this)
  • JIRA integration (if we ever decide on JIRA as a bug tracker)
  • Brandable / Theme-able
  • Plugin system looks pretty nice. Lots of 3rd party and Atlassian plugins:
  • SSO Integration? Start here


Social Text

Social Text is a perl-based wiki app bound to apache for mod_perl/mod_rewrite 

features of note:

  • Hosted or appliance or user (developer) install (OS).
    • The OS (open source) version is not as fully featured as the hosted/appliance version. Also, MySQL is not supported (Postgres)
  • Versioning and Diff
  • Post by email
  • HTML/Text/PDF export
  • Blogging
  • RSS-able
  • Doesn't appear to be WebDAV enabled
  • Tags
  • Restructure / Reformat document organization does not look as fully-featured as Confluence
  • Searchable, including attachment content
  • LDAP/Active Directory integration
  • There's a REST API, inluding examples in Ruby:
    • http://www.socialtext.net/open/index.cgi?very_simple_rest_in_ruby_part_1
    • http://www.socialtext.net/open/index.cgi?invitation_to_socialtext_rest_api_beta
  • backups available with hosted app
  • Security is actually implemented at a 'workspace' (not page) level. Kind of appears to be implemented as a 'catch-all' set up. See here.
  • Brandable / Theme-able
  • SSO Integration? Start here
    • Notable sentence from the link above: "In addition, Socialtext also integrates with an enterprise's existing single sign-on model. By using cookies, this allows users to authenticate once, for example to the corporate intranet or extranet portal, and then have access to a variety of services within the portal, including wikis. This simplifies the end-user experience and removes the complexity of users having to authenticate multiple times." also, "Socialtext provides a pluggable solution for directory services and single sign-on integration"
    • I'm having trouble finding this pluggable solution on their site/docs

Social Text REST API

Social Text does expose a REST API (which is our preferred web-service implementation). Notes follow (start here if you want to see the REST API overview, and here to see the REST documentation/resource list):

URI overview

REST options: 

  • Pages (adding, updating, getting, listing)
  • Workspaces (listing)
  • Tags (adding, updating, getting, listing)
  • Users (listing)
  • Search (basic search query support)

Some Ruby REST examples:

  • http://www.socialtext.net/open/index.cgi?very_simple_rest_in_ruby_part_1
  • http://www.socialtext.net/open/index.cgi?very_simple_rest_in_ruby_part_2_put_to_create_new_page
  • http://www.socialtext.net/open/index.cgi?very_simple_rest_in_ruby_part_3_post_to_create_a_new_workspac

While the REST implementation is in Beta, it appears pretty full fledged, and the implementation appears to be a strict REST implementation and not a hybrid XML-RPC/REST. Expected HTTP status codes are used, basic auth is required (easy for Net::HTTP). One difference in their implementation versus a ruby implementation is they use the Content-Type header to specify the format of any request body details returned. Json appears to be supported as well.

  • Conv Bart Goodwin
    Rank_member
    So are we looking at integrati
    Icon-thread a reply to Confluence vs. SocialText
    by Bart Goodwin on Jan 16, 2008 - 01:37 PM read 209 times
     

    So are we looking at integrating either Confluence or SocialText into e.laborate so we would have those features?  Last night I took at look at Confluence through the New Paradigm site. It doesn't have true project management features, but it does look like we could load files, have version control, organize by area (e.g. Education area would have RM PDP area, IT LDP area, etc.), etc. 

    A different issue: The hard part now is that it is still difficult to find things on e.laborate. I seem to have signed up for multiple RSS feeds trying to make sure I can sent important company information. Then I have individual blog contributors sent to me.  Lots of feeds and I'm still not sure if an announcement was made I would be notified.


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    • Conv Mike Roeder - Oh man, let this be the last of the testing.
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      Wiki Integration
      Icon-thread a reply to So are we looking at integrati
       Icon-thread in a conversation thread started here

      by Mike Roeder on Jan 17, 2008 - 08:13 PM read 322 times
       

      Hi Barbara,

      Yes, we are currently investigating potential wiki integrations. It's pretty early in the process, but we (the Apps Team) would love to hear (from anyone) any previous experience they've had regarding Wikis and how people like to use them. One good thing regarding Confluence is their extensive plugin system - a quick search on their plugin site listed at least a couple of interesting project management type plugins. Extensibility and easy integration are key for this project. Nonetheless, please feel free to reply to this conversation regarding anything wiki related. We'd appreciate the input.

      As for the general e.laaborate issues, we'd love any feedback you have - the more specific the better. I'd start that conversation with a couple of questions for you:

      1. Which feeds are problematic?
      2. How are you 'organizing' the feeds (since you mention you have several)?
      3. Have there been specific instances where your RSS feed was not updated but the content on the site was?
      4. Are you using the 'secure feed' option, and if so, which RSS reader are you using?

      Thanks for the feedback Barbara. Looking forward to any additional insight you can provide

       

      Mike 


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      • Conv Brian Magierski - @cwood @ITSinsider lunch this short work-week at Rudy's???
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        Confluence adds wiki spreadsheet capability
        Icon-thread a reply to Wiki Integration
         Icon-thread in a conversation thread started here

        by Brian Magierski on Jan 18, 2008 - 09:31 AM read 225 times
         

        Very interesting.

        From Collective Current

        Fantastic news: Atlassian have introduced an embedded wiki spreadsheet for the Confluence product called EditGrid. It has been implemented as a Confluence plug-in and finally brings real-time spreadsheet collaboration to the enterprise wiki world.

        When the wiki page is saved the spreadsheet is stored as an Excel like attachment to the page. Normal wiki change tracking / versioning is extended to the spreadsheet's contents!

        When the page is viewed the sheet's contents is rendered in HTML right on the page – no clicking of links or examining the page for attachments! The viewing user is even able to perform sorting and auto filtering.

        When the page is placed into edit, a special sheet editor is provided.

        Uncharacteristically for Atlassian, the plug-in has been provided first for hosted users (both Hosted and the newer Enterprise Hosted schemes) but in-house users will have to wait until "later in 2008 Q1".

        I feel that this feature opens up the Confluence tool to even more possibilities regarding emergent applications/user organized applications and is possibly another nail in the coffin of the traditional CMS style intranet.


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  • Conv Jon Silvers
    Rank_explorer
    wiki case studies
    Icon-thread a reply to Confluence vs. SocialText
    by Jon Silvers on Jan 18, 2008 - 05:45 PM read 652 times
     

    Mike, thanks for taking a look at Confluence. Feature comparisons are great, but as you point out in the comments, they don't always give the full story. That's esp. true for Confluence. As food for thought, here is a fantastic 2-part case study written by one of our customers about how they're using Confluence, how it's been successful, and what they've learned along the way. I think it gives a good picture of Confluence's flexibility.

    http://www.e-gineer.com/v2/blog/2007/08/our-intranet-wiki-case-study-of-wiki.htm

    http://www.e-gineer.com/v2/blog/2007/12/building-enterprise-20-on-culture-10.htm 

    There are more case studies on our site, and I have links to other case studies written by customers, too, if you're interested. 

    Cheers,

    Jon 


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    • Conv Brittain
      Rank_docent
      Thanks for the info Jon
      Icon-thread a reply to wiki case studies
       Icon-thread in a conversation thread started here

      by Brittain on Jan 19, 2008 - 03:22 PM read 565 times
       
      Contributions like yours are exactly why we (BSG Alliance) like working "out in the open".  We'll certainly take a long look and get back to you if we've any questions or followup.

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      • Conv Jon Silvers
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        np
        Icon-thread a reply to Thanks for the info Jon
         Icon-thread in a conversation thread started here

        by Jon Silvers on Jan 21, 2008 - 01:09 PM read 418 times
         
        Yep, glad to jump into the conversation. Am happy to help answer questions... or at least point you to someone more knowledgeable and less technically inept than myself ;)

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        • Conv Mike Roeder - Oh man, let this be the last of the testing.
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          SSO
          Icon-thread a reply to np
           Icon-thread in a conversation thread started here

          by Mike Roeder on Jan 21, 2008 - 08:52 PM read 311 times
           

          Hi Jon - thanks for joining the conversation. I'm really enjoying the evaluation so far. Kudos to your development team regarding the great docs and all-around technical implementation of the user-install solution. I had it up and running on one of our linux boxes in less than an hour. Quite a feat!

          I did have a technical question that I couldn't find an answer to on the site or in the docs that I'm hoping you can help answer. What's the Single Sign On solution for Confluence, especially in regards to the web services interface? Since it's likely that for whichever wiki solution we choose we'll be strenuously exercising the WS APIs in terms of integration, SSO is vital for us. I'm hoping we don't have to implement the server-side solution ourselves. Thanks for any info you can give us - and again, great product you guys have, I'm really enjoying it.

          [EDIT mcr] - Turns out you guys do employ an SSO solution, described here. I'll dig into it a bit and perhaps post additional questions on this thread, if I have any. If you'd like to chime in in the meantime, please do so.


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          • Conv Jon Silvers
            Rank_explorer
            SSO
            Icon-thread a reply to SSO
             Icon-thread in a conversation thread started here

            by Jon Silvers on Jan 22, 2008 - 01:22 PM read 236 times
             

            Crowd is not required for Confluence SSO, there are other methods. Here's an overview, hopefully this is what you were looking for:

             

            http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DEV/Single+Sign-on+Integration+with+JIRA+and+Confluence 


            confluence, sso

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